I went to a restaurant over the weekend. It has recieved at least one rave review in the national press. I paid £27 for a bottle of Lucido. Bargain, right? Except there was quite a delay in it arriving at the table, and we had to remind FOH that it had been ordered (they were quite obviously understaffed). When it did arrive, the bottle was room temperature. They put it on ice but as is always the case in these circumstances it was only the right temperature by the time the last glass was poured. It was served in the most shittest, cheap tiny wine glasses I think I've ever seen in a restaurant. It would have been better to have used water tumblers. The wine was bland and characterless, nowhere near as good as M&S Found Lucido. Even at £27, where is the value?
Admittedly, this was a relatively rare occurance of a bad experience in a 'rated restaurant' (the food was poor too)but with the rapidly rising cost of dining out, it's difficult to just write it off as one of those things and move on to the next place without it making you feel more cautious about where you spend your money next.
This was a casual lunch for two people in a mid-level pasta restaurant, two courses, a bottle of wine and service would have been well over £100 if they hadn't have compd my main course which was inedible (I didn't ask them to take it off the bill, they just did it which was good of them). I don't think anyone is tying to rip me off, but there comes a point when something just becomes so expensive that it can't possibly deliver value for money. I suppose that point is subjective and partly depends on income, but I'm getting less and less willing to take a punt on a meal out. This is one of two experiences local to me (although neither in Brighton) that have reminded me of eating out 30 years ago when bad service, poorly trained staff, average food and uninteresting wine lists were par for the course, at least outside London. Sometimes it feels like hospitality is going backwards.
Sorry, I think I might have gone off topic a bit. I suppose what I'm saying is that you can explain your business model until you are blue in the face but when your customers pick up your wine list, they are not thinking about how you make your numbers work, they are thinking about their bank balance, and nothing is going to change that.
I completely agree with you Andy. It is, without a doubt, on the onus of the restaurant to deliver value within the structure of the business model.
The price is what needs to be charged to pay the bills, and hopefully have a little left over. The real value of restaurants, in my opinion, is to work tirelessly to ensure we can deliver value above and beyond that the markup dictates. If a restaurant can’t populate the wine list with great wine (across the whole spectrum of their prices), and serve it correctly, then they have fundamentally not earned that mark up.
It’s frustratingly tricky to find good wine at restaurants at £27 now. We’ve been working quite hard to keep wines on our list at the sub-£30 mark, but they’re mostly bland & characterless as you said.
Good points well made. Totally understand and every other restaurateur is in the same boat. But they, like you, charge service on wine on top of a mark-up that is designed to cover service, training, breakages etc. That doesn't seem quite right. (I know, I know, list prices would have to be even more expensive if you didn't. But still ... )
Agreed. It’s our job to make sure the wine is good, the service is warm, and the glasses are polished. It’s up to us to ensure the level of service surrounding your wine (and our ability to curate a list), means that you feel that the classic restaurant mark up has given you sufficient value for your bottle.
Service charge is passed on in full to the staff, so none of it is retained by the business to cover any expenses.
I went to a restaurant over the weekend. It has recieved at least one rave review in the national press. I paid £27 for a bottle of Lucido. Bargain, right? Except there was quite a delay in it arriving at the table, and we had to remind FOH that it had been ordered (they were quite obviously understaffed). When it did arrive, the bottle was room temperature. They put it on ice but as is always the case in these circumstances it was only the right temperature by the time the last glass was poured. It was served in the most shittest, cheap tiny wine glasses I think I've ever seen in a restaurant. It would have been better to have used water tumblers. The wine was bland and characterless, nowhere near as good as M&S Found Lucido. Even at £27, where is the value?
Admittedly, this was a relatively rare occurance of a bad experience in a 'rated restaurant' (the food was poor too)but with the rapidly rising cost of dining out, it's difficult to just write it off as one of those things and move on to the next place without it making you feel more cautious about where you spend your money next.
This was a casual lunch for two people in a mid-level pasta restaurant, two courses, a bottle of wine and service would have been well over £100 if they hadn't have compd my main course which was inedible (I didn't ask them to take it off the bill, they just did it which was good of them). I don't think anyone is tying to rip me off, but there comes a point when something just becomes so expensive that it can't possibly deliver value for money. I suppose that point is subjective and partly depends on income, but I'm getting less and less willing to take a punt on a meal out. This is one of two experiences local to me (although neither in Brighton) that have reminded me of eating out 30 years ago when bad service, poorly trained staff, average food and uninteresting wine lists were par for the course, at least outside London. Sometimes it feels like hospitality is going backwards.
Sorry, I think I might have gone off topic a bit. I suppose what I'm saying is that you can explain your business model until you are blue in the face but when your customers pick up your wine list, they are not thinking about how you make your numbers work, they are thinking about their bank balance, and nothing is going to change that.
I completely agree with you Andy. It is, without a doubt, on the onus of the restaurant to deliver value within the structure of the business model.
The price is what needs to be charged to pay the bills, and hopefully have a little left over. The real value of restaurants, in my opinion, is to work tirelessly to ensure we can deliver value above and beyond that the markup dictates. If a restaurant can’t populate the wine list with great wine (across the whole spectrum of their prices), and serve it correctly, then they have fundamentally not earned that mark up.
It’s frustratingly tricky to find good wine at restaurants at £27 now. We’ve been working quite hard to keep wines on our list at the sub-£30 mark, but they’re mostly bland & characterless as you said.
Good points well made. Totally understand and every other restaurateur is in the same boat. But they, like you, charge service on wine on top of a mark-up that is designed to cover service, training, breakages etc. That doesn't seem quite right. (I know, I know, list prices would have to be even more expensive if you didn't. But still ... )
I just realised I misread your comment! Yes, I completely agree. Service charge is a completely broken model.
Perhaps peculiarly for a restaurateur (and someone who actually works in my restaurants), I completely disagree with the prevalence of service charge.
It is, unfortunately, somewhat pervasive as a result of the way the government have structured VAT. Perhaps a topic for another post!
And yet, they will still complain.
Valid points in support of wine pricing, however I don't see any credit in the sums for service charges?
From this side of the table though I'm really only interested in am I willing to pay it, and not feel ripped off.
Restaurant expenditure is highly discretionary.
Agreed. It’s our job to make sure the wine is good, the service is warm, and the glasses are polished. It’s up to us to ensure the level of service surrounding your wine (and our ability to curate a list), means that you feel that the classic restaurant mark up has given you sufficient value for your bottle.
Service charge is passed on in full to the staff, so none of it is retained by the business to cover any expenses.