I agree but must say I like lists for speed. A list of 50 pizzerias, best restaurants in Bristol, or whatever, compiled by a writer or title I trust , is useful. I miss Eater’s lists. I also agree about ordering things you wouldn’t usually. People think I’m mad for ordering things I don’t like!
I do agree with the sentiments and many of the points are well made, but I do think you can draw a line and empirical measure whether some restaurants are better than others and, therefore, you’ve got to be able to further segment out which are the best among a cohort. Some of it will be objective enough. It will end up being relative because such is the nature of identifying a top tier. Many “Lists” are deeply flawed but I’ve publicly flogged those enough over the years. I do completely agree that some of the most memorable or endearing moments come with things like timing or nostalgia, which will coax extra brownie points out of those people who were touched by such things, but one can also measure enough to reasonably discern the meh, the good and the great.
I do generally agree that most people can tell the difference between a good and bad restaurant. This is really more about could one possibly distill a bunch of great restaurants down to which is best?
Even then, there are plenty of really fantastic restaurants where some people have visited and thought they weren’t very good at all.
A great example would be when two national critics (Giles Coren and David Ellis), both gave completely conflicting reviews of Josephine Bistro in London.
My sense is that’s where numbers come into play, but reasonable people will disagree. I’ve followed this Josephine debate from afar and Giles seemed to be overly excited and Ellis seems to be the contrarian outlier so, accounting for bias, arguably neither is correct and then you average them out across their peer group to land closer to the truth. You can identify the best restaurants but just to assure you that I ultimately agree with you: what matters are the ones you mentioned. “Best” is not a proxy for joy. £500 wine vs the supermarket own. I’ve had more fun in the neighbourhood Enoteca than the 3 Michelin starred, World’s 50 something place that looked over it (true story). I’ve eaten in 19.5 point G&M-rated restaurants convinced the menu was a practical joke. Second, find someone whose opinion you trust and, by that, someone whose opinion mirrors your own.
Another article of yours that I agree with ;) Exactly one of the reasons that my annual Dubai guide showcases my go-to restaurants. I used to name these 'favourites' but changed the messaging this year to simply focus on 'where I dine'. Having said that, I think any kind of list is useful as a starting point when researching restaurants in a particular destination, however should be taken with a pinch of salt :)
I've stubbornly insisted on using "favourite" for every list I write for Braise so far. I want to do lists because I enjoy writing them, but "best" just makes no sense in the context of food.
As co-founder of Brighton's Best Restaurants, this is a subject close to my heart. With our annual restaurant festival coming up in October, I think I might write something on Smashed about it, but what I would say here is that we launched the list 10 years ago in an attempt to bring Brighton's emerging independent restaurant scene to greater national attention as we felt very strongly that it was being overlooked by the press and the guides in favour of places like, well, Bristol. We went with a top 20 initially as restaurant lists, off the back of the World's 50 Best and the National Restaurant Awards, were all the rage and guaranteed press coverage. Of course it was ultimately the quality of the restaurants that drew attention, but I'm confident that Brighton's Best helped define and build the profile of the city's dining scene more quickly than it might otherwise have done. I agree that best-of lists are deeply flawed, but I think people accept that and use them with that knowledge. At least I hope they do!
I think (as with all things), there are some lists that are well crafted, and some that aren’t.
“Best Of” lists can genuinely be a cause for celebration, but it’s important that omission isn’t considered a failure.
One of the issues I come up against is that “best” is objective, and it’s being used to describe an incredibly subjective experience.
The truth is that I still consult these lists when I’m in a new city. I still look at Michelin and The Good Food Guide.
I suspect people like you and me (and the others reading this) use these lists with discretion, but I can guarantee there are huge swathes of people who treat them as gospel (as I’ve heard our own guests reference the lists that were included in).
I also think a list that has “The Best Restaurants in Brighton” if infinitely better than one that straight up ranks up to an absolute winner. I genuinely cannot comprehend what would make “The Best Restaurant in the World” objectively better than the runner up.
We used to do an ordered list because people loved the countdown at the awards, but I became increasingly uncomfortable with it because the list is so diverse, with pizza joints alongside fine dining places, I felt it was impossible to defend saying one was better than the other, they are all 'the best' of their type. We still have an overall winner, but mainly to give the awards ceremony a suitable climax and have something 'significant' to put in the press release.
I should put a link in my bio or something. I'm so involved with it all I sort of assume that people know about it when of course there's absolutely no reason why you would.
I should be in Brighton semi-frequently with a new business I’m working on. I’ll make an effort to tick off a few of the restaurants (if not all of them).
Wow, Dans article is brilliant and Andy’s comment adds that little bit more with reference to the need for people to use lists with knowledge. I like the fact that the Good Food Guide no longer has numbered lists and Michelin never has. The use of the expression ‘best’ is totally misplaced as enjoyment of restaurants will always be subjective as Dan explains so well. Context is everything; and occasionally (??) the no 1 on Tripadvisor might be worth a visit…
Tripadvisor number 1s are always hilariously leftfield. The best restaurant in London, according to TA, is Double J’s Cafe on the Euston Road. I mean, WTAF? Don’t get me started on the Brighton rankings either.
Agreed: 'Best of' lists are lazy, often innacurate, and I find boring to write. Yet from time to time I'll still write them, as that's what people are looking for, being as they are short on time. It also helps massively with gaining visitors to a publication -- inevitably my most read pieces are, rather sadly, 'best of lists'. Maybe this says more about the kind of content people are looking for than anything else.
Adding this to my list of Top 28 posts about restaurants. 😂
In pole position I hope!
I agree but must say I like lists for speed. A list of 50 pizzerias, best restaurants in Bristol, or whatever, compiled by a writer or title I trust , is useful. I miss Eater’s lists. I also agree about ordering things you wouldn’t usually. People think I’m mad for ordering things I don’t like!
Totally agree! It’s so important to follow the publications/ writers you trust (I still use lists frequently).
The problem only arises when people follow random lists blindly and wonder why the choices don’t resonate with them.
If you write a book, I'm going to read it. You write well, Dan. I mean it.
Thank you Maitreyee!
Couldn’t agree more - as someone who compiles a lot of lists, while knowing every opinion, every flavour is fiercely subjective
I think part of the fun is finding a list written by someone with similar tastes (I suppose that’s true of all mediums, including here).
There’s something wonderful about taking a recommendation from someone you’ve grown to trust (even if it’s over the internet).
So true
I do agree with the sentiments and many of the points are well made, but I do think you can draw a line and empirical measure whether some restaurants are better than others and, therefore, you’ve got to be able to further segment out which are the best among a cohort. Some of it will be objective enough. It will end up being relative because such is the nature of identifying a top tier. Many “Lists” are deeply flawed but I’ve publicly flogged those enough over the years. I do completely agree that some of the most memorable or endearing moments come with things like timing or nostalgia, which will coax extra brownie points out of those people who were touched by such things, but one can also measure enough to reasonably discern the meh, the good and the great.
I do generally agree that most people can tell the difference between a good and bad restaurant. This is really more about could one possibly distill a bunch of great restaurants down to which is best?
Even then, there are plenty of really fantastic restaurants where some people have visited and thought they weren’t very good at all.
A great example would be when two national critics (Giles Coren and David Ellis), both gave completely conflicting reviews of Josephine Bistro in London.
Hard to say who’s right.
My sense is that’s where numbers come into play, but reasonable people will disagree. I’ve followed this Josephine debate from afar and Giles seemed to be overly excited and Ellis seems to be the contrarian outlier so, accounting for bias, arguably neither is correct and then you average them out across their peer group to land closer to the truth. You can identify the best restaurants but just to assure you that I ultimately agree with you: what matters are the ones you mentioned. “Best” is not a proxy for joy. £500 wine vs the supermarket own. I’ve had more fun in the neighbourhood Enoteca than the 3 Michelin starred, World’s 50 something place that looked over it (true story). I’ve eaten in 19.5 point G&M-rated restaurants convinced the menu was a practical joke. Second, find someone whose opinion you trust and, by that, someone whose opinion mirrors your own.
I think you hit the nail on the head by saying that you have to account for bias.
I actually think lists are brilliant if the person curating them has similar tastes to you. It certainly helps avoid disappointment.
Another article of yours that I agree with ;) Exactly one of the reasons that my annual Dubai guide showcases my go-to restaurants. I used to name these 'favourites' but changed the messaging this year to simply focus on 'where I dine'. Having said that, I think any kind of list is useful as a starting point when researching restaurants in a particular destination, however should be taken with a pinch of salt :)
I've stubbornly insisted on using "favourite" for every list I write for Braise so far. I want to do lists because I enjoy writing them, but "best" just makes no sense in the context of food.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Dan, you’re the best.
Very kind of you
As co-founder of Brighton's Best Restaurants, this is a subject close to my heart. With our annual restaurant festival coming up in October, I think I might write something on Smashed about it, but what I would say here is that we launched the list 10 years ago in an attempt to bring Brighton's emerging independent restaurant scene to greater national attention as we felt very strongly that it was being overlooked by the press and the guides in favour of places like, well, Bristol. We went with a top 20 initially as restaurant lists, off the back of the World's 50 Best and the National Restaurant Awards, were all the rage and guaranteed press coverage. Of course it was ultimately the quality of the restaurants that drew attention, but I'm confident that Brighton's Best helped define and build the profile of the city's dining scene more quickly than it might otherwise have done. I agree that best-of lists are deeply flawed, but I think people accept that and use them with that knowledge. At least I hope they do!
I think (as with all things), there are some lists that are well crafted, and some that aren’t.
“Best Of” lists can genuinely be a cause for celebration, but it’s important that omission isn’t considered a failure.
One of the issues I come up against is that “best” is objective, and it’s being used to describe an incredibly subjective experience.
The truth is that I still consult these lists when I’m in a new city. I still look at Michelin and The Good Food Guide.
I suspect people like you and me (and the others reading this) use these lists with discretion, but I can guarantee there are huge swathes of people who treat them as gospel (as I’ve heard our own guests reference the lists that were included in).
I also think a list that has “The Best Restaurants in Brighton” if infinitely better than one that straight up ranks up to an absolute winner. I genuinely cannot comprehend what would make “The Best Restaurant in the World” objectively better than the runner up.
We used to do an ordered list because people loved the countdown at the awards, but I became increasingly uncomfortable with it because the list is so diverse, with pizza joints alongside fine dining places, I felt it was impossible to defend saying one was better than the other, they are all 'the best' of their type. We still have an overall winner, but mainly to give the awards ceremony a suitable climax and have something 'significant' to put in the press release.
I also wish I’d known of your list last time I was in Brighton!
I should put a link in my bio or something. I'm so involved with it all I sort of assume that people know about it when of course there's absolutely no reason why you would.
I should be in Brighton semi-frequently with a new business I’m working on. I’ll make an effort to tick off a few of the restaurants (if not all of them).
I just commented to someone else that it’s so challenging to find the balance between what we believe in and what might resonate with people.
It’s a fine line, and sometimes we need to exploit the systems in play to make the most of the situation.
(For years, we refused to put chips on the menu at BANK)
If we’re lucky enough to be named in another list, you can expect me to share news of our inclusion with as many people as I can!
Wow, Dans article is brilliant and Andy’s comment adds that little bit more with reference to the need for people to use lists with knowledge. I like the fact that the Good Food Guide no longer has numbered lists and Michelin never has. The use of the expression ‘best’ is totally misplaced as enjoyment of restaurants will always be subjective as Dan explains so well. Context is everything; and occasionally (??) the no 1 on Tripadvisor might be worth a visit…
Tripadvisor number 1s are always hilariously leftfield. The best restaurant in London, according to TA, is Double J’s Cafe on the Euston Road. I mean, WTAF? Don’t get me started on the Brighton rankings either.
Agreed: 'Best of' lists are lazy, often innacurate, and I find boring to write. Yet from time to time I'll still write them, as that's what people are looking for, being as they are short on time. It also helps massively with gaining visitors to a publication -- inevitably my most read pieces are, rather sadly, 'best of lists'. Maybe this says more about the kind of content people are looking for than anything else.
100 percent agree
Love this read Dan. Totally agree with the idea of learning your own taste (and actively trying to expand it) make all the difference
Thank you Jess! Your photography is beautiful by the way.
Thank you ☺️
You just can't miss Dan! Another fabulous article, really enjoyed this read, thank you!
Thank you Harry!